Second point, Talmud Sanhedrin 107a says she was shampooing her hair thus, negating the fact she was taking a ritual bath, as mentioned in Talmud Eruvin 4b the whole body must be in water not hair. Rather, by the onset of puberty, they were adults and were treated as such. [2] Of course, in the previous article, I showed evidence from within the Bible. It is omitted in the list of 1 Chronicles 11:1-47, but is now probably discernible as AHIJAH the Pelonite (1 Chronicles 11:36) (see Kennicott, Dissertation, p. 207). Not only was this marriage permitted, it resulted in the birth of yet another beloved figure, Solomon. Part of the reason for some Christians denial about child marriage in the Bible is that the Bible does not mention any specific age at which marriage could occur. Her father and grandfather were often at the The reason is given in the genealogical tables, which show that he was the grandfather of Bathsheba, and that his son Eliam was the comrade and friend of Uriah., [27] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tpc/2-samuel-15.html#1, Ahithophel, the grandfather of Bathsheba (2 Samuel 15:12; 2 Samuel:3), [29] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/psalms/55.htm, [30] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/55-13.htm, [31] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/poole/psalms/55.htm, that person who was the chief contriver and promoter of this rebellion under Absalom, even to Ahithophel, of whom he spoke [in] Psalm 55:13; and though he doth not excuse the rest, as we have seen, yet he lays the chief blame upon him, and here he adds new aggravations of his treason.. And one said, Is not this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite? So David sent messengers and took her, and she came to him, and he lay with her. Figure 1: Map showing how far Ahithophel would have travelled in the short-lived coup attempt by Absalom. He hanged himself after realizing that the revolt would fail. The couple had concluded the marriage contract when Aisha was only six but had waited to consummate the marriage until she reached physical maturity.. Why is it assumed that a 3040 years old Ahithophel could not have a granddaughter? Bathsheba was described as having WebChapter 1: Women of Faith and Courage Chapter 2: EveFirst Woman in Creation Chapter 3: SarahWife and Mother of Patriarchs Chapter 4: LeahLoved by God Chapter 5: TamarAncestress of the Lord Jesus Christ Chapter 6: Deborah, JaelFearless for God Chapter 7: BathshebaWife and Mother of Kings Chapter 8: Mary of NazarethMother 2012-01-09 00:45:39. Change), You are commenting using your Facebook account. The Mount of Olives is adjacent to the city of Jerusalem, so David would have had a good view of the city and thus, assuming he wrote the psalm, could have been describing his feelings at the time. One night in Jerusalem, King David was walking upon his rooftop when he spotted a beautiful woman bathing nearby (2 Samuel 11:2). [72] Sometime after, probably 4 years (2 Samuel 15:7) after reconciling with his father David, Absalom began his rebellion. Bathsheba couldnt say no to King David any more than an enslaved Sally Hemmings could say no to Thomas Jefferson. Most, though not all, of the evidence for the age of marriage comes from outside the Bible (i.e., from outside scripture), which some Christians ignore because it is not inspired. Add an answer. Even if the psalm itself did not refer to Ahithophel, the verse could still be applied to him, as he was a bloody and deceitful man (from Davids perspective) whose life was violently cut short. How could they both be alive in 1 Chronicles 27 when Ahithophel supposedly committed suicide in 2 Samuel 17? Practically, I have helped the authors of DTT website and after I have done that, Im gonna deal with websites like wikiIslam and answering islam. In his commentary, Ibn Kathir stated that the age of marriage coincides with the age of puberty. Married the daughter of Eliam (2 Samuel 11:3), who was the son of Ahithophel (2 Samuel 23:34). In the case of Ahithophel, not only was his wise council rejected by Absalom (55:9), he also committed met a violent and untimely death by suicide (55:23). There are 2 videos refuting IC on Marys age. Some Bible dictionaries mention both Eliams without any additional information. There is disagreement among the experts as to what age that should be. 23), but of Ahithophels unfaithfulness and the rebellion of Absalom (Chald., the Rabbins, and most interpreters), and indeed not after the outbreak of the rebellion, but shortly before it.. He didnt lure her. with 2 Samuel 23:34)., [14] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bnb/2-samuel-11.html#3, Bath-sheba was the granddaughter of Ahithophel 2 Samuel 23:34., [15] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bcc/2-samuel-12.html#1, He had no pity for the beautiful young Bathsheba whom he ordered to his bed. This elite group also included Uriah the Hittite (v. 39). It is even in Sahih International. [13] Most commentaries also share this view, including Barnes Notes on the Bible,[14] Coffmans Commentaries on the Bible,[15] the Expository Notes by Dr. Thomas Constable,[16] E.W. Christians should try to be consistent. Since David died when he was 70 years old, it means that he was 50 years old when Bathsheba (911 years old) gave birth to Solomon. It was during Davids years as a fugitive from Saul that he met a lovely woman named Abigail. He had no pity for Bathshebas grandfather Ahithophel, Davids trusted friend and adviser, [16] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/dcc/2-samuel-15.html#1, Ahithophel (2 Samuel 15:12) was probably Bathshebas grandfather (2 Samuel 11:3; 2 Samuel 23:34)., [17] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html#3. Note that the Bible describes Bathsheba at this time as very beautiful (2 Samuel 11:2) and David was overcome with feelings of lust for her! Part of the reason for some Christians denial about child marriage in the Bible is that the Bible does not mention any specific age at which marriage could occur. Yes, David must have been in his late 30s to his early 40s and Bathsheba would have been young but of age, not an adolescent. In this section, I will try to pre-empt some possible Christian objections. However, this does not fit well due to the contradiction between Sauls age at the time of his death and Davids prophecy in Psalm 55:23. In verse 1, David, who was nearing death, described Solomon as young and inexperienced: Then King David said to the whole assembly: My son Solomon, the one whom God has chosen, is young [naar] and inexperienced [rak]., According to Gesenius Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, the Hebrew word naar can refer to a newborn child or a young man as old as twenty:[74], As for rak, it is usually translated as tender or weak, and is generally used for little children:[75]. Psychologist Dr. Robert Epstein has made the controversial suggestion that young people, regardless of how young, should be allowed to make decisions about marriage and sex provided that they demonstrate that he or she knows about the risks of sexis physically and emotionally mature, and so on, an arbitrary age cutoff necessarily allows incompetent people to gain rights and privileges they probably shouldnt have., The norm that the ulama did come to consensus on was only a general guideline: they prohibited sexual intercourse for girls not able to undergo it, on the basis that otherwise sex could be physically harmful. If we read 2 Samuel 12, when Nathan the prophet came to David, he provided the parable of the rich man and the poor man as a way to trap David into confessing his sin. [49], Among the Jewish commentaries besides the Talmud and the Targums, Rashi also identified Ahithophel as the subject of the psalm,[50] and this was also the view of the Pirkei Avot.[51]. In other words, you can talk to younger children about David treating Bathsheba like she was his Died at 70 years of age. Actually, God had no problem with it. According to the decree of God, he might have lived the other half; but he has not done it., [57] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/mhcw/psalms/55.htm, They are bloody and deceitful men (that is, the worst of men) and therefore shall not live out half their days, not half so long as men ordinarily live, and as they might have lived in a course of nature, and as they themselves expected to live. Ironically, from an Islamic point of view, marriage at such a young age is prohibited (unless Bathsheba had somehow entered puberty as such an early age and was both socially and physically mature, which is unlikely). Note that the dictionary does not deny that Ahithophel was Bathshebas granddaughter or that he was the subject of Psalm 55. Would David have called Ahithophel a man mine equal (https://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/psalms/55.htm). Figure 1: Map showing how far Ahithophel would have travelled in the short-lived coup attempt by Absalom. This is not the Muslims problem because we do not believe in the Bible as a reliable source of information. It was common enough for the women to marry as young as 15, she was possibly 1518 when All which agrees to Achitophel., [47] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/whe/psalms-55.html#13, From this rapid survey of the general calamity, David turns to the chief supporter of the rebellion, his former chief counsellor, Ahithophel. I am the author, and I have already debunked IC on Rebekah. This is where Psalm 55 comes in. This is the thing that really hurt David, is that Absalom had turned against him., [35] https://www.studylight.org/commentary/psalms/55-13.html, as mine equal: i.e. Also already taken care of. Then if you perceive in them sound judgement, release their property to them.[104]. [66] Saul also lived into his seventies. And Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) knows best! 3 David sent someone and inquired about the woman. As shown, David was declaring that those who had betrayed him and were trying to kill him will not live out half their days. This brings us to the most crucial point of our academic journey of determining Ahithophels age. xxiii. Thus, it was not child marriage at the time since maturity tended to occur much earlier than it does now. One competing interpretation may be that the subject of the psalm was Sauls murderous overtures towards David. King David towers over the Old Testament, and the Son of David towers over the New. He went with Absalom. Ironically, the evidence comes from the life of her grandfather Ahithophel, who happened to be Davids counselor (2 Samuel 15:12) and was involved in Absaloms conspiracy to overthrow David (this is a very important issue that we will consider later). WebEvery step was taken at the initiative of David. However, that is, Perhaps Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite is different from Eliam, the father of Bathsheba.. Both words signify my people is Gods. This son of Achitophel (chap. We will use two main sources for this: 2 Samuel and Psalm 55 (though other books will also be used). He could have been as old as 11 years if we assume that the four years in 2 Samuel 15:7 refers to the time from Absaloms return from Geshur (2+3+2+4=11). Indeed, the account in 2 Samuel 1517 shows a man who was quite active, thereby suggesting that he was not an old man. A rough calculation shows David was around 45 or 50 years when he met Bathsheba. And my master Joab and my masters troops are camping in the open field. Though this is said to be a prayer of Moses, who probably lived some 250 years before the reign of David, it still finds corroboration in the time of David, since Barzillai was 80 years old at the time of Absaloms revolt, and David himself lived for 70 years. But, God called Bathsheba his own, worthy of legacy of his Son. Why would the author of 2 Samuel have mentioned Eliam in passing on two different occasions and yet have meant them to be two different people and not clarify it, especially since Bathsheba was the daughter of one Eliam, whereas another Eliam was part of Davids elite military unit? Psalm 55 is a prayer of David asking God to save him from his enemies. (LogOut/ Furthermore, God approved of David remaining married to Bathsheba, which resulted in the birth of Solomon, whom God loved. Bathsheba Survives NavPress Miranda approaches her twenty-seventh birthday determined to reinvent her life and According to 2 Samuel 15:30, David was on the Mount of Olives when he found out about Ahithophel. Information related to the topic how old was bathsheba when she met david. It should be noted that the Bible does not state Bathsheba was _ years old. So, if Ahithophel was less than 40 years of age at the time of his death (let us conservatively assume he was 39 years old), and he was Bathshebas grandfather, then how old could Bathsheba have been around this time? Despite the loss of Temple Judaism in 70 AD, Redemptive Judeo-Christianity will triumph. [] This was also based on the Prophets marriage to Aisha. Rather, Ahithophel must be the close friend, since he was Davids counselor. 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